[lounge music] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [Narrator] "On Story" is brought to you in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, a Texas family providing innovative funding since 1979.

[waves] [kids screaming] [wind] [witch cackling] [sirens wail] [gunshots] [dripping] [suspenseful music] [telegraph beeping, typing] [piano gliss] From Austin Film Festival, this is "On Story," a look inside the creative process from today's leading writers, creators and filmmakers.

This week's "On Story:" On "Abbott Elementary:" A Conversation with Patrick Shumacker.

- It's a bit of a cheat with Abbott, in the sense of they're doing a job that you're just like, you're just rooting for them, you know?

To just get through the day.

And then, like, the secret weapon is like, our kids, which, you know, it's like, you can always just cut away to a kid and it's just like, "Aw."

It's like we always say like, "Dunder Mifflin had paper.

We have children."

[audience laughs] [paper crumples] [typing] [carriage returns, ding] [Narrator] This week on "On Story," we're joined by Patrick Shumacker, the co-showrunner of the hit comedy, "Abbott Elementary."

Shumacker discusses his experience building the show's ensemble cast, the benefits of writing 22-episode seasons, and working with child actors.

[typewriter dings] - How did you first get involved in this?

You know, this was Quinta's idea?

Right?

- Well, first we met Quinta, because we cast her in a sci-fi comedy pilot that we did for the CW with Rob Thomas.

And Quinta came to us with this idea of like, a show, a workplace comedy about teachers, but she wanted to do it as an animated show.

And, you know, we were down to do it.

And the thing that sold us on it was like, so her mom was an elementary school teacher in Philly, in the Philly school district for like, 40-plus years.

And you know, she came in like, and Justin and I, when we're trying to figure out pitches, we always come at it from like, we want start the pitch with a personal anecdote.

She started out with this story that she told us about visiting her mom when, you know, she was like, in her 20s, came back to Philly.

She's like, "I just wanted to go like, see like, the latest Marvel movie with my mom, but it was parent teacher night."

And my mom was like, "I've gotta wait here until this one parent who's working the night shift comes in."

And so, you know, it was just a story of like, dedication to the job.

And it was really touching.

And you know, from her perspective, she was annoyed that she couldn't see like, Infinity War or whatever.

I was like, "What do you think about doing this as like, live action broadcast workplace comedy?"

Which Justin and I had been talking about.

'cause we were looking for that.

And she was like, "I was actually thinking the exact same thing like, yesterday."

And so two weeks later we were like, pitching it to like, ABC, Fox, NBC, CBS.

[typewriter dings] - It's great writing, but there's also this great casting.

And how important is like, that aspect?

Because every character is great.

- I have to say, casting this show, the pilot, was the easiest casting experience I have ever had, and probably ever will have.

On the one hand, Quinta knew exactly who she wanted for certain roles, you know?

Like, Cheryl was, you know, that was just a meeting that Quinta had with Cheryl.

And she was like, "You're Barbara."

And no argument from the studio or the network on that one.

You know, you're doing a mockumentary.

And so, there is sort of the suspension of disbelief.

Like, you want people to feel fresh, so you don't necessarily want to go after like, recognizable people.

But we made exceptions.

You know, like Janelle James came in and at that point, you know, she was a standup and she was a writer on Black Monday.

I didn't know who the hell she was, but I knew that she was Ava.

Like, she walked into the little box in my Zoom and it was like, "Oh my God.

Like, who is this person?

We have to have her."

- Look, I don't wanna say I told you so, but-- - I will.

Y'all should have listened to Jacob and made a right on 30th Street instead of the left that night.

You want me to tell you what happened to you?

Oh, right.

Tell the people.

So, they got robbed because they thought it'd be cute to walk around West Philly at night with all this camera equipment.

Hell, I'd have helped rob you if I was there.

Anyway, here we are five months later, because that's how long it takes for three people with art degrees to save up for new cameras.

Welcome back!

- I wanna credit Bill Lawrence for telling me this.

We worked with Bill a few years on a few shows and he was always like, you know, encouraging about like, kind of taking what your actors are bringing to you, and kind of adjusting to suit them.

[typewriter dings] [Barbara] This show has such a sense of family.

It feels very comfortable, actually.

They feel very comfortable.

And some of that, I'm sure, is the chemistry amongst the people, but some of that has gotta be the writing too.

- It's a bit of a cheat with Abbott, in the sense of they're doing a job that you're just like, you are just rooting for them, you know, to just get through the day.

And then you also like, the secret weapon are kids, which, you know, it's like, you can always just cut away to a kid and it's just like, "Aw."

We always say like, "Dunder Mifflin had paper, we have children."

But it really does, you know, immediately kind of get you, you know, in their corner, and just the situation that they are dealing with, with you know, the underfunding of this school.

You know, the grossly underfunded, like, criminally underfunded school, where you just immediately are rooting for them just, you know, vocationally speaking.

But then, you know, yeah.

Through that sort of crucible of, you know, getting through the school year and all of that, I think like, all of these bonds are sort of naturally forming.

I think Quinta did a really amazing job from the beginning building these kind of like, archetypes, where you have the like, mentor figure in Barbara, you know, who is, you know, based somewhat on her own mother.

But yes, like, I chalk a ton of it up to chemistry, and then I chalk a bunch of it up to just, yeah, the stories that we tell, I think, are these pretty like, you know, relatively harrowing like, crucibles of, you know, dealing with like, system and making it through and, yeah.

And again, having 22 episodes a season-- - Yeah.

[Patrick] Is a pretty great runway.

- Yeah.

- But truly like, it's such a gift on just like, a storytelling standpoint, 'cause it's like, yes, you get the mythology, you know, the season-long mythology or the series-long mythology, but then you also occasionally get to pepper in really fun, one-off, you know, like, our desking episode was born of just like, "Well, we gotta make another episode."

- Once I do this, and those kids see it, desking will be corny and over.

Jacob, we rolling?

[Melissa] Kill it.

You got this, Janine.

Woo!

- Don't say that.

I don't believe that she does.

- No, she's doing it-- [Greg] She's not very coordinated.

- She's down.

- Oh.

Oh, I'm okay.

No.

Ow.

I'm okay.

[Barbara] You did something I really loved at the start of season three, and it sort of felt like almost reset, you know?

[Patrick] Ah, yeah.

- And it was like, in the first two seasons, the district was sort of this invisible tormentor of all of these folks.

And I felt like that was working, it was very Darth Vaderish.

Because you could see that.

Like, you could just believe that.

Of course.

- Yes.

- Of course we all know that.

It's the government agency running something that they don't even set foot in the building, right?

And then in season three, turned into, you turned them into real human beings who walk into the building, and essentially aren't exactly as we expected.

- I think in season three, the thing was, "Well, okay, we need a mechanism by which Janine is going to become a district employee, and the only way we can do that is by bringing in kind of a new generation of district employees, and making them different," you know?

And so yeah, you know, you had Josh Sagara as Manny, like, you know, talking to Barbara, you know, who is one of the most, you know, despite being, you know, a woman of God, she's very like, cynical when it comes to, you know, the district and what they're able to do for her and everyone else around her.

And you know, we wanted it to be like, a real sort of sincere attempt in this younger generation of district workers to say, "Hey, things are gonna be different.

We're actually gonna like, put forth an effort."

- We're super excited to be here on behalf of the new superintendent, John Reynolds.

I'm Manny, that's my dream team over there.

That's Emily, that's Simon.

And we don't come empty handed.

We come with some iPads and smart boards for your classrooms loaded with learning apps.

[teachers applaud] - New and improved models?

- Same old engines.

These people aren't gonna change a blessed thing, except how many bodies are in the room.

- And we'll see you around.

Thank you.

- The first like, three or four seasons, I think, you know, we really set forth at the beginning of the season to like, examine like, a kind of like, a different facet of, you know, public education.

And so, you know, then, like, we had like, the charter school thing, and then we had like, in season four, it was like, gentrification of the neighborhood and how that changes the school and the community around the school and things like that.

So yeah, that year, season three was the district.

- So, you have an aspect to this one though, that certainly "The Office" didn't have.

Like, nobody really cares how badly those people treated each other.

But you're dealing with kids and people who are around kids all the time, and they have to behave a certain way, hopefully.

For instance, like the smoking episode in season three was sort of like, blew me away, when they're getting to the teachers in the lounge talking.

So, how do you all really look at that?

'Cause you do have that hanging over your head somewhat.

- Our like, mantra every season and just in series is just like, if we do like, any episodes that are about like, issues or whatever, like it's comedy first.

You know, the comedy is forward-facing and like, we never wanna do a very special episode.

- Jacob, you literally vape.

- Okay, that's different.

- Yes, in that it's worse, because you can vape anywhere.

- You vaped all through Saltburn, - You're inhaling thousands of toxins.

Yuck.

- Yeah.

Well, Janine smokes weed every day.

[all gasp] - Damn, Afroman.

- Nope.

Not every day.

Every night.

- Janine.

Reefer.

Ganja.

The devil's lettuce.

- That's why your feet so big.

- It's medicinal, and it's considerate.

If I didn't smoke, I'd be an insufferable energizer bunny.

What a twist.

Janine is quietly off that loud.

- Ava, you can't talk, okay?

You a hookah ahead.

[Ava] Facts.

And microdosing.

I just eyeball it and say, "Yeah, that's enough."

[Patrick] Like, the smoking episode, getting notes back from the studio on that one.

It was pretty funny.

There was one person giving notes and you could tell that they were like, kind of like, holding back.

And then they were like, "Well, yeah, the thing about like, Janine, like, actually like, smoking weed, you know?

It's like, we totally get it.

We totally get it."

And then another executive just immediately goes, "It was me.

I didn't like it."

[audience laughs] Like, with that episode, we're like, "Well, this is just a fun vehicle for like, the FADE," which is our analog for DARE, you know?

We never sort of like, set out to do anything that's gonna have like, I think a political view that leans, you know, so hard one way versus the other, you know?

[typewriter dings] - Okay, so full disclosure, I'm from Philly, and so, when I started watching the show, you know, like anybody from Philly, I was hugely skeptical, [Patrick] Really angry.

- Really.

[Patrick] Just in life.

- And really angry, right?

For no reason whatsoever.

And Philly, I feel like you've really made Philly a character in the show, in a way that I actually have grown to appreciate.

And in fact, I even said to somebody at one point, like, "These people in this show are really mouthy.

Like, everybody is really mouthy."

And then I realized, "Oh my God, they did it.

They actually did it."

[audience laughs] So like, how does your writer's team get familiar with it?

Obviously, she's from there, but that's, you know?

[Patrick] Yeah.

Well, I mean that's-- - It's hard to describe the town though, you know?

To people.

- First and foremost, it's Quinta, and she's able to say yay or nay and yeah, "This is a real thing," or whatnot.

Secondly, you know, we do a fair share of research, you know?

Every year at the beginning, you know, we'll speak to educators period, but also a lot of like, Philly locals.

So, you know, stuff comes from that.

But the episode airing tonight, part one of two, is the one that I got to direct, which was a blast.

And we have a Philly sports figure in it that I think is going to excite Eagles fans very much.

Excited me, and turns out he's really good at comedy.

I was like, "This is such a gift.

Like, you're just kind of a natural."

But anyways.

[Barbara] Well, I mean the baseball episode.

That episode was really great, and I've-- - So ambitious, I have to say.

- Can you talk a little bit about that?

It was crazy.

- I think we almost killed Randall.

He directed that episode.

You know, if you're unfamiliar with the episode, we went to a Phillies game.

It was like teacher appreciation night at the game.

We have our entire cast there, and we shot at a real Phillies game, and then what ended up happening was, the original scripted story, Kyle Schwarber is having a slump at the plate, and that's why Barbara is trying to, you know, yell to him about, you know, changing his batting stance, where he's putting his front foot and all that stuff.

Well, what ended up happening during the actual game is that Kyle Schwarber tied the single game home run record.

And people thought that we like, wrote that.

That like, Major League Baseball is WWE, and it's all just like, "Oh, it's all staged, clearly."

That was not at all what we intended.

He was supposed to have a slump.

Instead he hits four home runs in the game, and then we had to shoot his scene with him on the field after the game, after he ties the single.

Like, he becomes like, Major League Baseball legend, and then he's gotta shoot the scene.

But you know, that was just like, Ava Coleman, who happens to be a writer on the show.

She was the writer of that episode, and you know, she went to Philly, and was just like, frantically rewriting while we're shooting, you know, game footage and stuff.

That one, it was a math problem.

It was a math problem and Randall killed it.

I almost said, "knocked it out of the park", but that would be corny.

And then I did.

[typewriter dings] - So, that brings us to Philly famous people, sort of, and gotta talk about the It's Always Sunny episode.

[Patrick] Yeah.

- Because that was just unexpected joy, and what a-- - It started as unexpected terror on our part, because we were like, "Well, legal's never gonna let us do this," but anyways.

- So, talk a little bit about that.

'cause that is kind of, the whole scenario is crazy.

- Quinta ran into Rob McElhenny backstage at like, an Upfronts, like a Disney Upfronts, 'cause weirdly, now that you think about it, like, Always Sunny is a Disney show.

So, they saw each other and Rob was like, "We should do a crossover sometime."

And she was like, "Ah, that's funny.

You know, whatever."

And then he like, tweeted it out and people were like, "Yes!"

- You said duck work, or duct?

- What did you say?

- Oh, has anyone ever worked in a garden?

- I lived outside.

- Oh.

Okay.

- You guys look familiar to me.

- No, we don't.

- Yeah, you do.

Like, I know you from somewhere.

- I would've known if I saw you.

- We don't do schools, usually, so- [Melissa] Wait, did you ever get into a fight at an Eagles game?

- Of course.

- Of course.

Yeah.

Have you?

- Are you kidding?

When have I not?

[all talking indistinctly] - Okay, that's what it is, then.

All right, go Birds.

- Go, Birds.

- Go, Birds.

- I like birds.

That's cool.

- If Caucasian Cultural Exchange is over, let's get to the free work.

- Okay.

Yeah.

[Mac] Go Birds.

- Like, back to the actual like, writing part of it, you know, we took things pretty far, I would say.

I remember running the room on the day that we came up with Frank, Danny DeVito's character, they think that like, raccoons are eating like, mulch, and it turns out that it's Frank, and I'm like, and I'm like, having fun.

I'm loving it, but I'm also known, I think, well, Quinta will say this, that I'm a little crazy, and I'll pitch like, the dumb stuff.

And so, I'm thinking like, "This is great."

And then I'm like, "But is it too dumb?

Maybe."

- You wanna bash his brains in, or should I?

- No man, that's Frank.

- I know that.

- Get me outta here.

- Were you the one eating the compost the whole time?

- Only after you put the garlic and the chili powder on it.

Came back last night for some more.

I saw that pudding cup was full and I got stuck in here.

- Why are you wearing piss pelts?

[Frank] I was freezing.

But by the way, the piss pelts worked.

I didn't see one raccoon.

- All right, I've hit my limit.

Mr.

Johnson, hose him off and get him inside before the kids see this.

- Very good, by the way, if you'd like to try some.

- And then, Danny DeVito showed up, sure enough.

I met him, like, literally we were doing the rehearsal and I met him and he was like, lying in dirt on our facade on the back lot of Warner Brothers.

And I'm like, "Hey, nice to meet you.

Can I take your picture?"

I'd just gotten this new camera.

And he's like, "Do whatever you want."

[audience laughs] [typewriter dings] [Barbara] Let's talk about Ava.

Ava's like that character that you hear in lots of bad notes that are like, unlikeable women, and maybe you shouldn't give them too much space, and how the audience will deal with them.

I took a poll in the office, you know, and people didn't love her in the beginning.

But you've softened her up now.

So, can you talk a little bit about like, her trajectory, and how you intended originally to use her, you know?

- She's obviously her own hero.

Like, clearly, clearly.

No, I think, you know, I think she was winning from the beginning, but I think part of that formula was that, you know, how funny our other characters are reacting to her shenanigans.

Like, Quinta loves it when somebody comes up with a joke that roasts her, like, at her own expense, that if it's really funny.

Like, somebody did, wow, my god, I'm gonna botch the joke.

But it was somebody likening her face to the sun in Teletubbies.

She just has a very round face.

Quinta fell out of her chair in the writer's room when that was pitched.

- Barb took the day off.

- What?

Is she okay?

I mean, is everything all right?

Is she mad at me?

- Just because you got a round face like the Teletubby sun baby doesn't mean that the world revolves around you.

- The actors' innate comedy in receiving, you know, the bad news or the joke or the jab from Ava is also something that, you know, has buoyed her, and maybe made some of her earlier shenanigans more like, palatable.

And then, yeah, we started to dimensionalize her more, and she did start to understand and empathize a little bit more.

And then, we did get to learn that, you know, she had an ailing, you know, grandmother that she takes care of, and you know, there are are things about her that are, you know, humanitarian and altruistic, and she just doesn't brag about them like she does like about how hot she is, and like, you know, how stylish she is.

And I mean, Janelle's wonderful, and you know, she came into it just fully baked on the comedy side.

And then, very quickly she just elevated her game on the drama side.

Like, her dramatic acting, just like, out of nowhere.

Like, when she got fired, like, that scene with her and Cheryl and she's leaving.

It was really touching.

- I thought that you were too selfish to really care about our students.

I thought that we would all be so much better off without you.

But now, I see how wrong I've been.

Actually, I've been seeing it for a long time.

- Well, thank you.

And Barb, I didn't ask you to teach the music class to make your job harder.

I just, I know you've been tired, and sometimes doing something you love is the kind of thing that can reinvigorate educators.

- Yeah.

- And to make my job easier, but now I'm unemployed.

Never too late to become a sugar baby.

- So, Mr.

Johnson.

So, let's talk about... And I wish he worked at our office, so it would be cleaner.

- Yeah.

He was just gonna be a recur, you know?

And I feel like in the pilot, like, he got the one joke that was the cutaway to him subbing, and he's like, "This is who runs the world, kids."

And it says, "The Illuminati."

Yeah, he was a huge hit from the beginning.

William Stanford Davis is the actor's name who plays Mr.

Johnson.

And he goes by Stan.

And he is, he's just a guy that like, he's so happy to be there.

He's like, in an amazing way, kind of this like, crazy cipher character that you can say, "Oh, he's like, lived like, 1,000 lives."

Like, he's definitely our most absurd kind of broad character, in the sense that you can kind of like, give him anything, like, anything to say or anything that's like, part of his, you know, maybe BS, maybe not, backstory.

In the writer's room we're like, "No, no, everything happened."

But then there was one day where I was like, thinking about like, the history of the school and when he started, and literally, it looked like Kevin Feige pitching the MCU for the next five years.

And I'm like, "I don't think it's this complicated."

Every once in a while you do try and ground him a bit, especially like, in his capacity for mentorship with Gregory.

- She didn't think that we could work through that fight, so she ended things.

- Did you tell her you disagree?

- When a woman says it's over, that's the end of the conversation.

- Where'd you pick that one up?

- My father said that there's a list of rules every man should follow, and that's at the top of the list, followed by, "You can only cry one tear like Denzel in Glory," and, "Never wear flip flops."

- If you believe you can work through this, Janine should know that.

Yes, you follow the advice from a man who wears sneakers to the beach, but you your own man, right?

That's not rhetorical.

Are you your own man or not?

- Yeah, yeah.

- Then what you waiting on?

- He has you know, this heart to heart with him that like, we shot two different ways.

'Cause I was like, hellbent on doing a version where Gregory's just in his classroom like, tidying up, and then all of a sudden you hear, "Gregory," and he's like, "Ah," and Mr.

Johnson's just sitting at his desk like it's a Bond movie and he's just an assassin.

And then, it ended up being too ridiculous.

So, we went with him entering like a normal person, but yeah, like anything's funny with him.

It's an embarrassment of riches with Stan.

[typewriter dings] [Narrator] You've been watching On Abbott Elementary: A Conversation with Patrick Shumacker on "On Story."

"On Story" is part of a growing number of programs in Austin Film Festival's On Story Project, that also includes the On Story radio program, podcast, book series, and the On Story archive, accessible through the Wittliff Collections at Texas State University.

To find out more about On Story and Austin Film Festival, visit onstory.tv or austinfilmfestival.com.

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